Thread
| re: post examples of a better grade of critique joey 2 Oct 08 9:01AM | Thread Closed |
there are none because you're not a good enough writer to pull it off, but there are byronic -- cheap poetics -- moves in this poem and 'byronic' works as well as any. it's not scott or burns obvious, as you write when you're being mor. the mong personality seems to be a little more educated and i suspect you've read more than your other half would even allow.
> > possibly, you didn't see the byronic moves in mong's verse?
>
>
> There are no 'byronic moves' in my poem joey, this is pure nonsense
> and made up pseudo-wank-intellectualism pretentousness on your part.
>
> You just made that up in the hope it would phase a few synapses, but
> it didn't work.
>
> Byronic... ha!
>
> Really.
>
>
> ~ Mong
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| re: post examples of a better grade of critique Isabelle5 2 Oct 08 9:18AM | Thread Closed |
Hey, Joey, I don't recall giving you permission to swipe my critique to try to use it against me. What's up with that? That seems to be beyond the realm of common courtesy.
Besides, I think it's pretty good. It gets to the point, is respectful of both the poet and poem and explains why a change would be good.
Don't use my stuff again without permission, please.
Isabelle
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| re: post examples of a better grade of critique unknown 2 Oct 08 9:28AM | Thread Closed |
> well, we're all honest, but a poem is written in a space that's more
> honest than dialog or conversation and can't be judged as effective
> communication, if the only point of communication is to shut the other
> person up. i don't think it is... i think the point is to open a
> dialog so that you can share understanding. how you wrote the poem,
> how you honestly failed in somethings and succeeded in others -- and
> we all know when we're cheating in our writing -- is the discussion
> here in poetry critical. there's really nothing more real than that
> that author's can give to each other.
i don't see why you would say that a poem can't be judged "as effective communication." while on an emotional level i want to scream my head off at the idea of people judging poetry as mere communication, on a logical level there is definitely an element of communication or meaning transmission in poetry. isabelle's critique offers insight into how this process could be better achieved. thus, it is at least an attempt to come up with a legitamate critique. i can't comment on the overall quality of it because i haven't seen it in context.
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| re: post examples of a better grade of critique unknown 2 Oct 08 9:29AM | Thread Closed |
actually not only is it not true that quoting someone is not out of the realm of common courtesy, it's quite frequent when one is discussing things in a serious manner. while i agree that joey's actions were not the most well-intentioned, it's ridiculous for you to think that you can or should prevent him from quoting you.
> Hey, Joey, I don't recall giving you permission to swipe my critique
> to try to use it against me. What's up with that? That seems to be
> beyond the realm of common courtesy.
>
> Besides, I think it's pretty good. It gets to the point, is
> respectful of both the poet and poem and explains why a change would
> be good.
>
> Don't use my stuff again without permission, please.
>
> Isabelle
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| re: post examples of a better grade of critique Isabelle5 2 Oct 08 9:44AM | Thread Closed |
You think that's fine? He didn't say anything about my comments, just posted it. I know that it's because I've been challenging him lately and he didn't appreciate my comments, since it was about his own poem.
As usual, he was more interested in making personal comments about the POET than he was interested in getting any real feedback on his poem.
I don't think it's a good idea to allow anyone to quote anything for egostistical reasons. He had no reason to use my comment, especially as he didn't even say if it was good or bad, just wanted to try to zing me, as he is doing a lot lately.
Not appreciative of it, Joey.
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| re: post examples of a better grade of critique joey 2 Oct 08 10:45AM | Thread Closed |
the comment showed a way of approaching critique and this is, though pointed, a way of offering up a discussion so that people can defend or critique these several methods. as usual, a kind of intellectual failure -- even in the best intentioned -- prevents people from taking the high road and just simply asking themselves how they know how to respond to a piece of writing, where they learnt how to write out a response, and how they learnt the aesthetic which guides their judgment. asking yourself why you do something and not something else is a very common move for mature thinkers. that's why i'm starting these threads -- because i think that there are people who can respond intellectually to this kind of question -- psychological evaluations, ad hoc, and from the first, only allow the re-evaluation. any mental patient can play 'doctor'. i'm wondering why you'd rather play doctor than talk about the anatomy of a poem -- umm, well, yes... dumb question, isabelle.
> You think that's fine? He didn't say anything about my comments,
> just posted it. I know that it's because I've been challenging him
> lately and he didn't appreciate my comments, since it was about his
> own poem.
>
> As usual, he was more interested in making personal comments about the
> POET than he was interested in getting any real feedback on his poem.
>
> I don't think it's a good idea to allow anyone to quote anything for
> egostistical reasons. He had no reason to use my comment, especially
> as he didn't even say if it was good or bad, just wanted to try to
> zing me, as he is doing a lot lately.
>
> Not appreciative of it, Joey.
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| re: post examples of a better grade of critique Isabelle5 2 Oct 08 11:08AM | Thread Closed |
Joey, that's like asking someone why they prefer tea to coffee or chocolate over strawberry ice cream. You're asking the impossible, poetry is subjective, it's a gut reaction. A person can hate a poem at one point, come back a year later and like the same poem they once called crap.
I don't do anatomy, I write poetry. Perhaps you're looking for the forensics lab, you'd have more luck there with your chopping to find your 'evidence.'
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| re: post examples of a better grade of critique Isabelle5 2 Oct 08 11:10AM | Thread Closed |
Besides, why should anyone open their psyche to you? It's a private thing, you only need to see the end result, the poem.
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| re: post examples of a better grade of critique Mongrol 2 Oct 08 1:15PM | Thread Closed |
> there are none because you're not a good enough writer to pull it
> off,
talking to yourself again joey?
it very much seems that way... and whatever you think of my poetry - which means nothing to me personally - the fact still remains - my poetry, and by extension myself as the poet - is far better than yours ;)
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| re: post examples of a better grade of critique Mongrol 2 Oct 08 1:17PM | Thread Closed |
> Besides, why should anyone open their psyche to you? It's a private
> thing, you only need to see the end result, the poem.
Quite agree.
joey certainly hasn't earned the right or the privilege of such depth of knowing the poets here.
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