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br:hm:
varun

you will fall
 1
asleep at the edge of this age
 2
razing epochs
 3
 
 
from black
 4
a lotus will blossom
 5
to make you and you
 6
 
 
everything golden
 7

19 Feb 09

Rated 8.2 (7.4) by 8 users.
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Comments:

the style is imagist with broad brush strokes creating your prophesied timely message -- the Upanishads which is one of the most ancient Sanskrit texts delivers this acknowledgement of the cyclical nature of time -- circles within circles while an ellipse kiss of time -- time is cyclic, repeating identically every 5,000 years, and composed of five ages or "Yugas"; the Golden Age, the Silver Age, the Copper Age, the Iron Age each being exactly 1,250 years long -- yet this is the Religious view which is false in that it represents a realEYEsation of cyclic time -- here we are in the midst of a dark age where hoplessness and lack of perspective ivisit us all -- nevertheless hope cycles high in your well made pome
 — AlchemiA

maybe drop the 'everything' at 7, because the idea-image is more complex than 'everything'? and, if this were a visionary, mystical poem, i think it would end

to  make you
and you golden

...
merging the present with the past and lifting out of time -- the past being the 'you who is you', which you can only know as 'i am like that', and the you which might become, the un-describable as 'me', but describable in nature as whatever is most wonderful.
 — geckodrome

great point, mike, but i don't think the author
will be amenable to the emphasis on "you";
he put "everything" in there as an essential
part of the parallel, "you making everything
golden", for "lotus making you golden", which
is a cyclical behavior and nature of time, as
Alc has already stated.

at least that's how i see it, though, and i like
how he constructed |6 with that tricky and
clever reiteration of "you" and how he made
|7 stand on its own.

unless, of course, the author were to really go
for "complex and mystical" which would require
some derailment of "train of thought" just like
what you suggested.

great write, nevertheless.
: )
 — fractalcore

'everything', frac, in that point is superficial. what i'm suggesting is that the only thing possible for the author to become is to leave 'me' behind, the 'you' in the poem, and transform himself into nature. i can't see the point in writing an 'almost mystical' poem -- it would be like being 'almost a poet'.
 — geckodrome

It is wise, always, to ignore Geckodrome's suggestions. Without recourse to thinking twice about it.

[click]
 — Gynoid

'everything' is the better statement than 'you'..

the extra 'you' would a double reversible mirror tinted rose pink.. not applicable to the rest of this piece..

what is missing in previous comments is any understanding of the last line as transition

[click]
 — Gynoid

be#
 — Gynoid

i'm with you on that opinion, mike.

this is the place to go "full-throttle" but
i need to hear what the author has to
say about his "intent", which, i tend to
think, was triggered by and was but a natural
consequence of his consciousness during
that poem moment.

so, painting a "still" of the way one is at a
certain point in time is good as it is, and,
upgrading the obvious/physical to the sublime/
metaphysical is even better?

hmm, some natural phenomena and laws will
have to be violated and that would be too
much of a risk to take for some.

you're offering the "universal and timeless"
option in lieu of this post's current face-value
and are putting yourself in the line of fire again.

stop being a teacher, mike, 'coz i can't help
being a student everytime.

NO, don't stop and
thanks for the insight[s].
: )
 — fractalcore

missing the point of 'everything' in the placement where it is...

look to the lotus..

else you won't see...

the mystical and the metaphysic... all there..

[click]

[click]
 — Gynoid

first off, thank you alchemia, for the reading. you caught on, just write for most parts. 'hope' is very well discussed in the gita. you will know if you have read it. it seems that you might have. you know of these things deeply.

and fractalcore.
it is good to have you visit; yours and alchemia's conscientious understanding is highly respected. thank you.

gynoid (permission to call you by your 'real' name?) - thank you.


geckodrome -
read the upanishad. you might know, then, what these 7 lines really mean.

your comment in respect to what this is about, is falling very short.

here's what i think might be the issue: why you mostly miss on my pieces with your 'crits'; and also on other's pieces-
you, specifically, put yourself at the centre of the universe; as if an authority of what must pass, or not, as any craft; a final voice - reeks of extreme arrogance.
perhaps this is the face you have chosen to show us, here.
with the control that a virtual environment grants us, you seem to have none.


i try to undo that with each passing moment, and try to keep the universe at my centre; keeping in mind my illusory self's invisible place in the scheme of the universe: what i know is of no consequence in this larger picture.
even so, it is a life-long practice of neutralising reactions/emotions and the obsession with 'the self'; if, at all, one might so wish.

here's a little excerpt:
in the age of 'kali', vishnu's final avatar as the destroyer of peace, and all things on earth, where mankind will suffer at the hands of itself; the obsession with one's own deluded voice, and one's own 'truth' and 'knowledge' (as you have well shown us here, on poetry critical as a fine example), is the biggest symptom of the end, so to speak.
that the 'man' shall immerse himself in his own illusion, his own ego so much, the super-consciousness we belonged to in the previous age, will degenerate (which also you have exemplified; the degeneration of 'understanding'); denigrating others' experience, for the fulfillment of the insatiable ego.


this, the 'kali yug', will end.
vishnu will birth a lotus from his navel, in total darkness. and in this lotus will be cradling brahmah. {as a side-note 'brahm' = illusion}; he will create life, again - {brahm = the illusions/ brahma = the creator of illusion}
this will be the new age, the 'satt yug' (satt = true/truth}, the golden age; consciousnesses amalgamating cyclically, all humankind working for the benefit of the race, in tandem. for the benefit of higher-consciousness; and lives of a hundred thousand years.
'adding' to each other's experience.

now. if only you'd read the bhagvad puran, or the upanishad; one, you wouldn't be vitriolic in general, and two, you'd show signs understanding these 7 lines.



of course, it is absolutely not of pertinence that everyone in this world must read this or that book, myth, text, literature.
but, be that as it may, one then also must know one's place in the scheme of things, in the bigger picture.
and i am no one to be suggesting books or trains of thought to anyone.
 — unknown

Hi unknown: and yes 'permission' granted :)

Please, though you may already know this, be careful when engaging gecko in conversation, it will be an endless cycle of 'no matter what you say, what you intend, how insightful you are, what knowledge you have, your life experiences, what knowledge you are drawing on, what you yourself as the creator writer here - none of this matters.. none of it.. once gecko has decided he sees more than you do in your own poem, you will ALWAYS be wrong, until you agree with him..

I am highly disappointed in Fractalcore allowing herself to once again be drawn into the false directions Gecko leads her, her reasons are her own I'm sure, but she seems to have allowed herself to be subverted by the drivel of Geckodrome/Mike Bauer - she began well, but again just rolled over under the perpetual corrective miasma that is the unending self certainty of gecko - he is after all the worlds greatest living poet, and teacher of poetry..


I see your piece for the symbolic reading it is.. and now you mention the Upanishads, it completes itself.. you have captured the transition moment so perfectly with such simplicity, it is this art which is the beauty, and the beauty you have so artfully conveyed.. very well written.

a fine read..
 — Gynoid

at the end of illumination, sounds and all reception being one note on the vertizon, are not warped in fantasy but only seen from a different angle.
 — geckodrome

You, see .. there he goes.. my advice 'unknown' do not engage this person in further conversation.

Your poem is perfect as it appears..

[click]
 — Gynoid

from inside itself,
a floating lotus
walks on air.

talk about the lotus, not your attila the aum sweet-tooth. the ages only depend on an agent, and, now, the agent is happy and dances around the sun in peaceful song. only the little man on tell-me doesn't know that the gods are dead.
 — geckodrome

j.h. - thanks for the comment.

i actually had an issue with 'golden'.
saying 'golden' is very different to saying 'true' or 'truth'.

i wonder why 'the age of truth' or 'the true age' (as described and directly translated) was instead made 'the golden age'.
especially considering the austerity that is connected to the philosophy the age is supposed to exemplify.
interesting to say the least.
perhaps i should look into the epistemology/anthropology of this translation.

even though, one might argue that 'gold' is a pure metal; in history, culturally it has signified indulgence, and richness, rather than austerity.
perhaps it was that meaning of golden as being 'pure', that the phrasing was used.
perhaps not.

well.
enough of that!
thanks again for the read.

it's hard to resist the inciting remarks, i must admit. but i shall heed your advice.
 — unknown

"from inside itself,
a floating lotus
walks on air."


Is just... crap..

[click]
 — Gynoid

well, really, this poem is about pretending to be spiritual.
 — geckodrome

aww.
jealous, much?
 — unknown

^

hahahahahahaha


man, you just need a place to spew what you think people want to hear, don't you.

you are way off, man, way off!
 — unknown

hi, author
and gynoid, too.

aren't we supposed to see from all angles?
your adored -- or abhorred? --  geckodrome understands this
post verily, or that he sees it very differently like the way he
would see/read his own writing. his version,

"...to make you
and you golden"

is how he would write this post as his own and is exactly how
he writes his poems...which don't make sense to most of us,
right? he also provided a robust explanation to the "why this
and that, and not this or that?" of his crit here.

author, you're not supposed to take it as an authoritarian
mandate to change your poem according to how other poets
would like it to be read or written without really thinking about
the suggestions critically. i don't think geckodrome is being
unfair to you as he's very open about these things in providing
you the pointers/explanations. you've just been offered a[n]
[better] option here but you'll still be the sole authority in the
end. if you want your poem to stay as it is, then so be it; no
geckodrome, or fractalcore, or AlchemiA, or Gynoid, or whoever
else can change your mind once you've made the decision. [but
was your intent really just to translate some scriptural excerpt?]

it's just that we crit here by virtue of the values we uphold and it's
by example of a gecko-crit explained that we'll know how to read
a gecko-poem -- which is a tough job to do, yes? -- and you can
extend the analogy further/farther.

this is not about gecko though; it's about this space being a critical
space where we discuss writing and many other things along that
line. most of these comments/crits will not sink in for now and we'll
just be surprised how helpful they are after we're old enough to
understand -- at least that's what i see myself doing by then as i
don't really understand everything i read now.

gynoid sir/madam, i am a man, and what better way can we make
this place stand true to its name than to let it be a place for free
and open discussion? are you enamored with gecko? LOL -- please
stop bitch-slapping him as if he were your bitch.

gecko, you anticipated this and i'd told you -- for the heck of it -- that
they'd shit on your face again.

hard-headed fools we are, hehe.
: )
 — fractalcore

you want me to only think what you think? where shall we start?
 — geckodrome

thanks, frac, that's pretty eloquent and very kind of you. i think it's something like the issue that was raised, that this is actually a translation and not a personal poem, but that it's posted in a poetry place and not a theological discussion group. linguistically, it's a truism that words are hard to explain. the visionary poem would look like a poem, in the way that this looks like a poem. 'golden' is a problem word, because it's probably an attribute of non-color, like 'beylo', which has found a home in whatever is bright. the words carries too much baggage backwards, back into time when something like 'golden' was used. i was wrong to convert the theology of this poem into another theology, but i don't think that a prayer of any kind can work as poetry -- unless we call any patterned word-object a poem. it may be so. but, here it was, in poetry critical and asking for comments.
 — geckodrome

Sorry Fract.. Mike does not understand this poem.. else he would have listen to the poet that wrote it..

..instead all he has done is insist on a point he made as the correct one for someone elses poem..

you are wrong to defend him...

Seeing things form 'all angles' in one thing.. blindly following the blind is quite another..

this has yet again become about Mike/Gecko, and not the poem.. again another misinterpretation of Mike's format and presentations..

if you wish to defend Mike, please take it to his own 'forum' site..

this is someone's elses poetic space...

[click]
 — Gynoid

this may be a poem in poetry critical asking for critique Mike, but accept you don't know this poem, and have made a wrong assessment of it ..

simple.

[click]
 — Gynoid

Do you think the image shows an underwater city?
 — geckodrome

the word 'golden' is not a problem in this piece..

[click]
 — Gynoid

pretty poor, Mike..

if we can do anything with words, you aren't doing very much..

[click]
 — Gynoid

Yes.. this has now officially become about you.. and not the poem posted here.

But then, as per your intentions, it always was about you.

[click]
 — Gynoid

Black and hereby backed*
 — syrossoul

black gown
will fall down,
go boom,
raising eyebrows.

bare back
a stunner,
to make dunner
something fab.
 — geckodrome

thank you, gynodrome, for showing us the proper way to crit.
 — geckodrome

oh dear, forgot to tick the 'Post Anonymously' box.. well I never..

[click]
 — Gynoid

well, click it again, my dear. the perfect isogecko: gynogecko, never forgets unless he can't remember.
 — geckodrome

Your IP has been recorded many times as the same posted as 'unknown'. Just surprised you didn't hit 'Post Anonymously' to congratulate yourself.

but then gonzogecko's aren't renowned for their wit or skills.. just how they hack it ..

[click]
 — Gynoid

who is this gynogecko? you referred to 'it' as a 'he'.. must be a new kid on your block..

[click]
 — Gynoid

this is a really wonderful and rich poem with so few words and very spiritual. thank you for writing it.
 — gynodrome

fractalcore -

of course, attempting to see from all angles is a good habit.

i am not inclined to indulge in any one person's blatant and arrogant self-promotions, while questioning my integrity by insinuating that my writing is a copy of translations.


i will gladly converse with people who are here to learn, because i am here to learn.
i will not indulge people who think they're here to teach.
it is very simple.
 — unknown

if this is so precious you can't even give it to us, then why are you saying you're learning here, because this isn't an ashram and this is just a poem like any other poem here. there are so many possibilities of things to say and all you've given us is this trite aphorism?
 — formidrome

the above is a gecko clone.. a new account made by either him, or that other numpty who goes around trashing threads and poems :)
 — Gynoid

look at 'you will fall asleep'. isn't this a metaphor or not? if it's really an end of times thing, than 'sleep' must mean 'die'. but, if it's supposed to be a metaphor for blind and selfish acts making you ignore what's in front of your nose: going for the silver dish when there are gilt dishes to come, then 'this age' must be the anti-metaphor and a real thing. is there an age which will end? an age which is the destruction of all epochs, of time itself? we are shown what will happen as a model based on things of this world, but, if we're blind to all that is good ( asleep at the edge ) how will we see the truth of lotus blossoming? it would be a flower or menu choice at some fancy restaurant. 'everything golden' then becomes the check at the end of the meal.
 — formidrome

you will fall asleep at the year,
this age tarsal atmosphere,
from black - a tibet file,
to make you and you spore style
 — syrossoul

compare the language and models in the language that formidrome uses - it is easy to see its gecko/Mike with now a third accounts.. I wonder where gynodrome went too ..?
 — Gynoid

please do not stalk me, gynod. i don't understand how to even read the title of this poem but it still made me write my own poem about flowers. you have something to say about everything here.
 — gynodrome

Mike has logged back in - or it's that numpty using the other drome account too :)

either way.. the idiot is back in town
 — Gynoid

I'll skip on rating because apparently I haven't read the required texts, however, from an outsider's point of view, line 3 is extremely confusing in conjunction with line two (the edge of an edge, would that not be the end of a single epoch? why epochs in the next line?)

I like the double "you" in 6; they are the same word and yet different.

I will note from a grammar standpoint your phrases are short of a few words; "everything golden" needs a verb somewhere in there... given the nature of things I find it touchy to imply one, and there are dozens of ways to do it (making it the subject/predicate, or just everything is golden), at the end of the just the two words standing together with nothing to bind them to, even in context, are difficult to put a face to, but it does fit to the tone.

So basically I just need to figure out what you guys are talking about.
 — technomancer

thank you for your comment, technomancer.

you are right. it might just be a little too esoteric, in as much that the context is or can be called 'parochial', perhaps.

although, for most of your questions about this, you might want to consider reading about the 'yug', or 'yugas' as it is usually translated, in indian mythology; with a special reference to 'brahma'.
also refer to alchemia's comment. it might be of some help.

i've been contemplating an edit in present continuous; to help me with l5 especially.
the 'L' sound is getting a bit much right about there. but, if any of the mythology is true, or will be true, then technically, i cannot write it in present continuous. anyway.
that's another discussion.

thanks for the visit.
 — unknown

'isn't this a metaphor or not'?

are you fucking kidding me?

and you want people to take you seriously? geez!
 — unknown

two-bit hack, this up-on-a-shad swoon-dance is totally fish in your precious little hack hands.
 — geckodrome

gonzogecko hacks it again...
 — Gynoid

Mike should not have to use the standard polite disclaimers if for no other reason than, well, the title of this site. He may state his opinions authoratatively, and we can take what we need and ignore the rest, can't we? He has raked my only submission over the coals in three different ways with three different personae, and I, as a result, am honored with the attention I came here to get.
 — unknown

The problem is he doesn't 'allow' us to take what we need, as he will continue, on and on, almost forcing us to accept his opinion as the only right one, this is demonstrated best by his continuous and unrelenting discourse, until he submits himself, as always, to insults of the lowest and childish in their nature.
He believes himself 'clever' even when he is doing this.

No one here has any more 'authority' than anyone else.
 — Gynoid

Paul Valery said that a poem is never finished, only abandoned. I think that Mr. Mike operates somewhat on that principle. If he's never satisfied with our poems, he's probably never satisfied with his own, either. He is condescending. He does occasionally decieve, but I'm sure he feels justified in both.
 — unknown

Agreed, and that's not a bad quote and description, at all.
Yet it seems excessive for him to try and hammer this point, bluntly into people here, when a lubricated, and gentle tease would work much better.
 — Gynoid

nice
 — themolly

actually, i'm quite satisfied with several poems here -- they're on my favorites list -- but, i'm not satisfied that this one is a poem. if it's a prayer, then that's ok, and it'd be posted here in the workshop with the understanding that it was going to be used for missionary work. since this isn't labeled as anything but a poem, it's got to be read against other poems here and other poems we know. am i to forget that John Donne wrote his sonnets just so this one can have a 'special' reading? special consideration because of the author's intention? that's only for beginners -- 12 year old's poetry, which is always a custom language built out of real world talk. this one is built on some kind of special talk about mysterious things, and the poem just isn't mysterious unless you believe in those mysterious things. my suggestions were to get the apprentice theologian to give up his worry beads and work out his own identity in poetry itself. tell us about bedwetting fears and using the wrong fork -- things which might be real for this author.
 — geckodrome

To the author of this poem. You may want to consider re-posting this poem again, simply to delete the comments made by Gecko.

It would be a worthwhile exercise.

[click]
 — Gynoid

nah, j.h.
i think i'll just leave it up. ...

it's fun to watch this person trying to get their head around it; and failing miserably. while continuously adding all kinds of pedantic arguments in their defense, inadvertently defining their inability to understand, or sensitize themselves to, this something.

also a pycho-sociological study in how fascist some people are, over-bearing with their 'i am the one who knows what's right and wrong and you don't';

the earth slowly spins in 'oblivion' of an unknown disposition; the universe is open to interpretation!
 — unknown

molly, thanks for reading.
 — unknown

Is there a fly in the room buzzing about how he knows more of the author's intent than the author? Anyway, I love this poem. It's a shame to see it trolled the way it has been. I liked it as an imagistic, surreal poem before I even knew of the back-story... now I'm learning... didactic, too, indeed.

As for the fly, it was great to you see smother it with reason, but such things don't work on him...
 — snow

nah, j.h.
i think i'll just leave it up. ...


ok :)

yeh perhaps its a good point to leave his fish-out-of-water-gasping-for-air up for everyone to see..
 — Gynoid

'imagistic and surreal' -- i think that shows that for the average joe here this is a poetry site and not a 'spiritual sharing'. well done, snow.
 — geckodrome

thank you, snow. 'fly buzzing' - haha. good one. so apt.

and j.h.,
considering he called the upanishads 'trailer trash theology', can't expect anything, leave alone much of even a half-decent discussion.


just gotta love the random 1 raters. bring them on, fuckers.



geckodrome-
go and invent your language, and play with yourself.
oh, sorry with your 'dik' poetry, or whatever.

have some bloody manners, fucker! tsk.

you've written two very bad copies and posted them already. why post more here?!
they're showing me nothing.
i'm closed, completely, to any and all suggestion and commentary you make. get a fucking clue, you retard.
 — varun

the brahman (brahmin) speaks in brahms, the ole boy knows of the supramundane.
 — syrossoul

i'm closed, completely, to any and all suggestion and commentary you make. get a fucking clue, you retard.
 — varun

was i writing this to you? there's real poets here and we share.
 — geckodrome

what the fuck?!

yes, you WERE writing to me, you psycho.
 — varun

you were talking directly 'at' me, you delusional idiot.
read what you wrote again. you quoted my postings, trying to be an inventor with 'very-un'.

now, as i said before -
i'm closed, completely, to any and all suggestion and commentary you make. get a fucking clue, you retard. and stay clean off my poems.
 — varun

honk.
 — geckodrome

A moderator has been notified of your vandalism.

[click]
 — Gynoid

aum.
 — geckodrome

Many comments have been deleted on this poem due to their insulting or invasive nature.  A person's poem are is a private space, it is not the place for a dialogue about what poetry is, it is not a place to write your own poems as an insult to the poet of this poem.

Please remember in the future that no one has the right to continue annoying or insulting a poet.  Limit your comments to the poem, not the poet, not the theology you want to write about.  Do not begin threads on poems, especially after the poet has asked you to stop.  This is a reminder to all members.  Manners count and violations will not be tolerated.  
 — plath

yes, plath, it actually is a dialog space for commenting on poetry and the poet. otherwise this is meaningless, like myspace. if that's really what's supposed to go on in poetry critical, then there's no point in me being here at all -- it's supposed to be a writers workshop. what you're implying is that anytime someone even says 'you spelled this wrong', then that comment has to be removed if it 'bothers' the author.

what do you really want from poetry critical? no poetry, no critical -- just social networking?
 — geckodrome

again - crit spaces are not for you to dialog about anything other than the poem at hand.. the forum is the place for that ...what you think a crit space is for has been clearly defined for you..

i have tagged your last post as vandalism

[click]
 — Gynoid

Does not compute.
 — unknown

this is fun, since the verse is about a bible thing. you're right, of course, but if it's the case where it's a 17 year old not getting that she's talking only about 17 year old things and pissed that we're reading her poem like she was 'writing a poem like a grownup', then you'd see how the whole dialog thing breaks down. the problem with this specific poem was that i immediately felt like i wasn't allowed to crit it as a poem because it was about spiritual things which maybe were supposed to be beyond me -- get this, 'beyond me' because i didn't like it as a poem. i suggested how to open it up as a poem, and got slammed for daring to question the authenticity of the author. i think that's a very real and important thing about this dialog on this poem -- that it goes beyond the author: 'when is the content so sacred that it seals the poem from comment?', and this could go down, as you know, as a 'feminist thing', the game some people play here, of 'you can't understand'. what we can, as poets, understand is how a poem looks and why, and we can comment on it as a poem in order to find the true poem in it, and not just get converted to some religion.
 — geckodrome

Dialog about this poem.

Don't dialog on how we dialog on poetry in someones poetry crit space.

Your last comment has been tagged for vandalism.

[click]
 — Gynoid

hi varun,

i was a lil bit -- if not at all -- inclined to think you wrote this.
you carried this with a somewhat alien and unfamiliar voice;
were you experimenting or what? seems to me it was an easy
write for you.

on a side note, i stole this small gita book from the college
library when i was about 17 and i gave it to a friend when i
finished reading it. i don't clearly remember what it said verbatim
but it was something very familiar like the way you wrote this post.

anyway, i thought my friend needed the book more than i did then.
do you suppose any person has "Brahma" for a sanskrit name?
nice word for a mantra, too, hehe.

kudos to whatever you were trying to do with this.
: )
 — fractalcore

*maybe a double NOT must be there
between the long hyphens*

: )
 — fractalcore

hi, fractalcore.
'an easy write'?

thanks for the story about the stolen gita.
interesting in its own narrative.

yes, people have 'brahma' as a name.
 — varun

i liked this a lot.
 — dismantleme

V - why only one poem now? It's my turn to say ...where are you.. and come back.. and post more.. etc. And I have 0 posted. But I will if you will! hah

-Za
 — SarahMichele

fuck
fuck
fuck
good
good
good
poem
 — stout

I agree with stout about fuck fuck

Larry good poem Lark
 — larrylark

sarah, stout, larrylark -
thanks for reading.
how's it going?
 — varun

Hey Varun,
Beautiful poem
Hope you are well
G
 — sir_I_clan

what's up, g.
long time.
thanks for reading.

will drop you a line soon.
hope you're well too.
 — varun

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